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Mars Hill Audio Journal, Volume 133

PREVIEW

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Guests heard on Volume 133

Darío Fernández-Morera, author of The Myth of the Andalusian Paradise: Muslims, Christians, and Jews Under Islamic Rule in Medieval Spain, on the real history of Islamic Spain in the Middle Ages

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Francis Oakley, author of The Watershed of Modern Politics: Law, Virtue, Kingship, and Consent, on the enduring belief in sacral kingship and the secularization of politics in the late Middle Ages

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Oliver O’Donovan, author of The Desire of the Nations: Rediscovering the Roots of Political Theology, on why all political authority can only be properly understood by way of analogy with God’s kingship

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Thomas Storck, author of From Christendom to Americanism and Beyond, on the conflicts between “Americanism” and Catholic social teaching

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John Safranek, author of The Myth of Liberalism, on the self-contradictory character of modern liberalism

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Brian Brock, author of Captive to Christ, Open to the World: On Doing Christian Ethics in Public, on the challenges and opportunities of being a “Church theologian” in a secular university

read more

George Marsden, author of C. S. Lewis’s Mere Christianity: A Biography, on the birth and influential life of C. S. Lewis’s Mere Christianity

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Related reading and listening

  • The true places aren’t on any map — Clyde Kilby on C. S. Lewis’s claim that the Gospel is the greatest myth
  • Savoring the taste of Reality — C. S. Lewis on the transporting, illuminating capacity of Myth
  • When myth becomes fact — In this 1976 interview, Clyde Kilby (1902–1986) discusses C. S. Lewis’s critique of scientism and rationalism, his belief in the primacy of the imagination, and his mythic vision. (37 minutes)
  • A great Reality at the core of things — Clyde Kilby on the nature and need for myths
  • “A Myth Retold” — Literary critic Thomas Howard explains why he considers C. S. Lewis’s Till We Have Faces to be one of the author’s richest and most rewarding works. (18 minutes)
  • The just war tradition and whole-life discipleship — Daniel M. Bell, Jr. discusses the just war tradition, a tradition which is often invoked by figures who, upon closer inspection, tend to lack a robust understanding of its history and criteria. (57 minutes)
  • War and loving our enemy-neighbor — Oliver O’Donovan on evaluating the conduct of war in light of the evangelical command of love
  • “If there is no God, all is permitted” — Gary Saul Morson explores the consequences of belief and disbelief in God through Russian literature. (51 minutes)
  • The primacy of the Body of Christ —
    FROM VOL. 134
    Philip Turner reflects on how Christian ethics is misplaced if it has as its central concern individual moral behavior or social justice. (28 minutes)
  • Theology and the imagination — Jeffrey Barbeau explains what made C. S. Lewis an effective “translator” of theology for non-theologians. (21 minutes)
  • Mars Hill Audio Journal, Volume 166 — FEATURED GUESTS: William Cavanaugh, Kent Burreson, Beth Hoeltke, Jeffrey Barbeau, Jason Baxter, John Betz, and Bruce Herman
  • How literature shaped Lewis —
    FROM VOL. 155
    Jason Baxter explains how reading medieval literature enabled C. S. Lewis to become a “naturalized citizen of the Middle Ages.” (25 minutes)
  • Ethics hidden in economics —
    FROM VOL. 134
    William Cavanaugh explains why Christians should think about economics theologically, not just as a science or an ethical discipline. (25 minutes)
  • A flood of images — Oliver O’Donovan describes the distinctive character of publicity in modernity, which drowns us in a flood of ever-changing representations that do not serve the common good. (37 minutes)
  • How communities remember who they are — Oliver O’Donovan on the necessity of tradition in sustaining communal identity
  • Publicity and representative images in society — Oliver O’Donovan describes the nature of publicity as the force that mediates our communication with one another, creating common interests and then rapidly subsuming them into newer ones.(Lecture 3 of 3; 57 minutes)
  • How common loves shape communities — Oliver O’Donovan discusses how communities mediate love and knowledge to their members and what challenges arise as a community’s traditions are confronted by sin, error, and plurality. (Lecture 2 of 3; 49 minutes)
  • The “sovereign uselessness of moral reflection” — Calling on the wisdom of St. Augustine, Oliver O’Donovan reminds his listeners that all knowledge participates in the eternal Logos of God and is rooted in love, not disinterested moral judgement.(Lecture 1 of 3; 52 minutes)
  • The Heav’ns and All the Powers Therein — In this extended interview, Michael Ward makes a compelling case that the qualities attributed to the seven planets in the cosmology of antiquity and the Middle Ages are embodied in C. S. Lewis’s seven books about Narnia. (68 minutes)
  • Humility and moral knowledge —
    FROM VOL. 149
    Steven L. Porter discusses The Disappearance of Moral Knowledge, an unfinished manuscript (which he helped to complete) by the late philosopher Dallas Willard. (22 minutes)
  • The establishment of nonbelief —
    FROM VOL. 10
    George Marsden explains how and why American universities became places where religious concerns are excluded. (10 minutes)
  • Mars Hill Audio Journal, Volume 165 — FEATURED GUESTS: Jeffrey Bilbro, Daniel McInerny, Joseph Minich, Carl Elliott, Nadya Williams, and Don W. King
  • How the Church promotes the cause of freedom — Oliver O’Donovan: “We discover we are free when we are commanded by that authority which commands us according to the law of our being, disclosing the secrets of the heart.”
  • “The search for shared ends” — Oliver O’Donovan examines whether and to what extent there might be the possibility of a unifying Christian perspective on political doctrine or policy. (59 minutes)
  • Thinking coherently about politics — Ken Myers gives an introduction to political theologian Oliver O’Donovan, whose work has been instrumental in teaching many how to think about social and political life in light of the gospel of Christ. (57 minutes)
  • The law of faith and of love — Oliver O’Donovan compares St. Augustine’s interpretation of Psalm 119 with that of others, revealing Augustine’s more nuanced understanding of the complexities of the life of faith that the psalmist explores. (64 minutes)
  • A mixed reception —
    FROM VOL. 162
    Mark Noll discusses early critical reception of C. S. Lewis’s work in America. (29 minutes)
  • “A man after reality” —
    FROM VOL. 30
    Clyde Kilby discusses C. S. Lewis‘s critique of scientism and rationalism, and his belief in the primacy of the imagination. (15 minutes)
  • Two versions of Shadowlands —
    FROM VOL. 10
    Marjorie Mead examines two film portrayals of C. S. Lewis, noting which best captures Lewis’s jovial personality and the nuances of his faith. (4 minutes)
  • “Only a real world can save us” — Oliver O’Donovan explores how the “religion” of modernity lacks a coherent world in which one may participate with full human agency and moral purpose. (Lecture 3 of 3; 61 minutes)
  • Christian unity and civil society — Oliver O’Donovan introduces listeners to Dutch lay theologian Hugo Grotius, arguing that the questions he tackled relate to perennial concerns about the relationship between divine and human agency, and between civil and ecclesiastical authority. (Lecture 2 of 3; 57 minutes)
  • The demoralizing effect of pagan Roman religion — Oliver O’Donovan examines St. Augustine’s critique of pagan Roman religion in Book II of his treatise City of God and asks his audience to consider what insights Augustine’s critique has for us today. (Lecture 1 of 3; 51 minutes)
  • Knowing and doing the good — Oliver O’Donovan raises several key questions and complications involved in the task of taking concrete and practical action toward a recognized moral good. (Lecture 3 of 3; 63 minutes)
  • Moral knowledge of reality — Oliver O’Donovan argues that admiration is the fundamental form of knowing the world, as we cannot know fully those elements of reality (“bare facts”) that contain no significance for us. (Lecture 2 of 3; 55 minutes)
  • Attentiveness to the world, the self, and time — Oliver O’Donovan uses the metaphor of waking to discuss the concept of moral sensibility as attention to the world, the self, and time. (Lecture 1 of 3; 60 minutes)
  • Cultivating the Virtue of Reverence — Paul Woodruff (1943–2023) discusses the importance of reverence as a virtue that enriches relationships, elevates civic life, and helps leaders to wield power wisely. (53 minutes)
  • In defense of “society” — Dr. Russell Hittinger discusses the development in 19th-century Catholic social thought of the idea of society as a spiritual and cultural reality. (60 minutes)
  • A more robust account of political life —
    FROM VOL. 138
    John Milbank and Adrian Pabst on why politics needs to recognize the human soul in its depth (and what happens when it doesn’t). (51 minutes)
  • The collapse of public life —
    FROM VOL. 154
    D. C. Schindler explains how liberalism sought to make way for individuals to function together without any orientation to an explicit common good. (37 minutes)
  • An impoverished anthropology —
    FROM VOL. 146
    Mark Mitchell asks whether there is anything that truly binds Americans together beyond their commitment to self-creation. (34 minutes)
  • Etiquette and ethics — In this essay, Judith Martin (a.k.a. Miss Manners) argues that etiquette is “civilization’s first necessity” and an indispensable societal virtue. (21 minutes)
  • Against hacking babies — Oliver O’Donovan raises questions about IVF and the technologically ordered motive for efficiency
  • Impact of “infotainment” on community — Neil Gabler and C. John Sommerville discuss how the mentalities conveyed by our experience with communications media work against the nurturing of community. (36 minutes)
  • Eugenics and the rise of “evolutionary ethics” —
    FROM VOL. 70
    Richard Weikart describes evolutionary ethics and examines the ties between national racism and the eugenics movements of the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries. (16 minutes)
  • Liberalism’s self-destructive dynamic — T. S. Eliot on the social need to move toward something and not just away
  • Choices about the uses of technology — This Feature presents interviews with David Nye and Brian Brock related to how we evaluate adoption of new technology and how technology influences our thinking. (31 minutes)
  • The theological significance of current events —
    FROM VOL. 65
    George Marsden discusses how Jonathan Edwards (1703–1758) understood world history and the American experience. (14 minutes)
  • The fraught marriage of liberty and equality — In this essay, Patrick Deneen examines Alexis de Tocqueville’s complex and insightful portrait of “democratic man” living in the context of perpetual societal tension between the excesses of liberty and equality. (39 minutes)
  • The need for robust Christian intellectual life — In this lecture, Robert Benne surveys the contemporary landscape in which Christian scholars attempt to integrate their faith and their intellectual life. (43 minutes)
  • “Prophet of holiness” — Timothy Larsen discusses a new edition of George MacDonald‘s Diary of An Old Soul, a slim book of poem-prayers to be read daily as a devotional aid. (30 minutes)
Tags: AmericanismBrock, Brian R.Catholic social teachingChristian ethicsEthicsFernández-Morera, DaríoIslam—HistoryKingdom of GodKingshipLewis, C. S.LiberalismMarsden, George M.O'Donovan, OliverOakley, FrancisSafranek, JohnSpain—HistoryStorck, Thomas

Our latest Friday Feature:

When myth becomes fact



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Books being discussed:

Jeffrey Barbeau, The Last Romantic: C. S. Lewis, English Literature, and Modern Theology

Kent Burreson and Beth Hoeltke, Lay Me in God’s Good Earth: A Christian Approach to Death and Burial

Bruce Herman, Makers by Nature: Letters from a Master Painter on Faith, Hope, and Art


Lecturers to hear:

N. T. Wright on the epistemology of love

Jennifer Frey on O’Connor’s Thomism

Gary Saul Morson on atheism & belief in Russian literature

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Since 1993 — with the help of hundreds of interviewees — we’ve been exploring the complex factors that have given modern Western culture its distinctive (and often disturbing) character. We also try to describe what cultural life — its practices, beliefs, and artifacts — might look like if it was the product of thoughtful Christian imaginations. We hope our growing treasury of conversations and commentary provides resources for faithfulness in an often perplexing moment.

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Darío Fernández-Morera on Islamic rule in medieval Spain
from the interview

“Scholars in Islamic Studies departments argue that jihad really means a self-striving for perfection . . . (and they may be right and they maybe know more about the actual meaning of jihad than those medieval scholars and medieval leaders did), but of course that has nothing to do with what actually happened. And all the documents from both Islamic sources and Christian sources and archeological evidence indicate that religion was the main motivating force of the invasion.”

Synopsis

Cultural critic Darío Fernández-Morera re-examines the conventional belief that medieval Islamic Spain was peaceful and culturally thriving. While the widespread account of Islamic Spain claims that Judaism, Christianity, and Islam lived harmoniously under the rule of educated and cultured Muslims, Morera identifies this narrative as a myth that likely emerged during the eighteenth century as an argument against what was seen as a repressive Catholic regime. Since then, many factors have perpetuated this account and served as obstacles to reliable scholarship in Islamic studies. Listen to this interview to hear more about the religious motivations of jihad and how the Islamic conquest of Spain interacted with the prevailing Christian culture.

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Francis Oakley on the theme of sacral kingship
from the interview

“It’s quite an extraordinary thing; that you have notions of sacred monarchy worldwide in cultures that have no observable connection with each other. . . . In the ideology behind it there’s no clear distinction between nature/supernature, animate/inanimate, political/religious. Those distinctions just don’t belong.”

Synopsis

Historian Francis Oakley discusses how the theme of sacral kingship has been the normal form of government for human kind throughout history and how the liberal political theories of the modern west are, in fact, deviations from that norm. Part of the rationale behind sacral kingship is the very un-modern notion of cosmic harmony, that in reality there are no clear distinctions between nature and supernature, animate and inanimate, or politics and religion. In such a cosmology, the one who has the highest political authority is an integral mediator between nature, the divine, and culture; it is the ruler’s responsibility to insure that all are in accordance with each other for the purpose of securing a harmonious way of life for the people.

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Oliver O’Donovan on the fatherhood and kingship of God
from the interview

“We are not invited as it were to evacuate the metaphor [of kingship and government]. Rather we should say, the governments we know are pale reflections in the order of creation — of what God does for the world and what God is in the world — very inadequate reflections . . . but not because they are too much government, but because they are very much too little government as God understands government.” 

Synopsis

In this excerpt from our archives, Oliver O’Donovan cautions against dismissing the particular manifestations of God’s word and God’s created order because of our own personal or social grievances to certain metaphors and institutions. Often, we too readily compare the metaphors God uses to reveal himself, such as father or king, to our own experiences of fathers and kings. This comparison limits the meaning of the revelation to our imperfect and finite experience; human fathers and human kings become the originals and God a mere likeness of them. Rather, argues O’Donovan, we should interpret these descriptions of God as the ideals informing how we ought to think about notions of fatherhood, kingship, governance, and so forth. God’s fatherhood and God’s kingship are the realities against which we measure all human examples.

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Thomas Storck on the medieval understanding of economics
from the interview

“The idea of the craft guild (or occupational group, or vocational group) is not as absurd or as strange as it might seem, but is actually a very intelligent way of looking at an approach to economics, if you accept the idea that economics is not about personal enrichment. Economics is about supplying the human race with the things it needs and incidentally about providing the manufacturer . . . with what he needs to live a decent life.”

Synopsis

Author Thomas Storck explains how inimical the American ideals of freedom and the pursuit of one’s own happiness are to a just and generous economic life. In his book From Christendom to Americanism and Beyond, Storck examines the medieval understanding of economics as a subordinate aspect of human life in contrast to an American anthropology that promotes economics to the fore of human activity. Rather than considering economics as the pursuit of unlimited wealth, Storck argues that we need to retrieve the notion of economics as the process by which we provide what is needed for the community

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John Safranek on the political theory of liberalism
from the interview

“Every law smuggles in some view of the good. There’s no law that’s ever been passed that isn’t attached to a view of the good. Aristotle noted — and this is kind of a fundamental point of ethics — every action done is done for the sake of some good. . . . No legislator says ‘I’m passing this law, because it makes no sense and it produces a lot of evil.’”

Synopsis

Philosopher and medical doctor John Safranek joins us to discuss the ways in which the political theory of liberalism deceptively masks what it can and cannot do. As a philosophy, liberalism aims to protect the freedom and autonomy of members of society. It does so, however, not by appealing to a higher good that transcends each individual, but by defending its members from possible infringements of their freedoms. However, when conflicts arise over competing moral claims, such as in the case of abortion or gay marriage, liberalism is unable to resolve these disputes, since, according to the tenets of liberal philosophy, we cannot appeal to a particular understanding of the good. As a result, words such as “freedom,” “autonomy,” and “dignity” become rhetorically charged terms, functioning as authoritative concepts while being ostensibly neutral.

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Brian Brock on towards the place of religion in British public life compared to its American counterpart
from the interview

“I wanted to combine that martial image in which we’re not the warriors, we’re the booty, we’re the captives, with the idea that being so captive is an incorporation into Christ, being totally unthreatened by everything that goes on. . . . And that I think positions us differently in public conversation.”

Synopsis

Ethicist Brian Brock reflects on being a church theologian in a secular university in Great Britain and how this represents a greater tolerance in general towards the place of religion in British public life compared to its American counterpart. The American effort to separate the church from state affairs has lead to the bracketing of religious reasoning to private life in favor of a secular reason in public life. For Christians, this can often give rise to a state of being captive to the world and its language rather than to Christ and the language of the Church. Brock exhorts Christians to reconnect with the Christian tradition and not to shy away from thinking about social problems theologically.

 

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George Marsden on his biography of C. S. Lewis’s "Mere Christianity"
from the interview

“Although there’s a strong element of rationality in [Lewis’s] defense of the faith, it’s also always surrounded with a strong imaginative sense and an empathetic, personal, affective sense of what the faith involves.”

Synopsis

Historian of American evangelicalism George Marsden talks about his biography of C. S. Lewis’s Mere Christianity. Originally presented as a series of radio talks for the BBC during World War II, Mere Christianity became one of the most popular books among American evangelicals after Lewis’s lifetime. Listen to the full interview to hear how this high church Anglican became an unlikely favorite among evangelicals in America.

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